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There are a lot of different types of PEX pipes and fittings. DoItYourself.com, founded in 1995, is the leading independent my cordless tools are Bosch right now so I don't have any of the batteries or Chargers. Remove these and prepare the new ones that you will put in. While doing home inspections, I've noticed that in older neighbourhoods, some houses'copper pipe fittings are practically seeping water, other fittings haveminute water droplets slowly diffusing to the outside. Any information on this would be appreciated. I have noticed that the Milwaukee and DeWalt power tools do the rotation automatically. Then ask the floor heating installer to dry the floor, plan the cement layer, and connect the leaking point with a joint, such as water leakage. My electrical answers are based on 2017 NEC, you may have local amendments. It is mostly used for heating systems, insulation, and water piping. 2022 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. To ensure our content is always up-to-date with current information, best practices, and professional advice, articles are routinely reviewed by industry experts with years of hands-on experience. If the PEX expansion fittings leak, the pressure will be difficult to maintain for a long time. I'm cutting out the Poly-B, and using compression fittings to PVC adapters and regular PVC. We might be able to do something about it. Below are the tips you can follow to avoid leaks on your PEX piping system: The fittings used in PEX crimping and PEX clamping are the same. After determining the location of the leaking point, close the PEX expansion fittings water inlet, and outlet valves, and then let the remaining water out of the PEX expansion fittings. The trouble with reliance on neutralizers is that every time it falls out of maintenance, the water system starts getting damaged irreversibly. Fixing leaking PEX connections and holes in your PEX pipes is not as hard as you think it is. Thus, you can also use them to cut PEX and CPVC pipes. You should check them periodically to avoid future problems in your piping system. Does this matter? One of those green 3M scouring pads, with soapy water,wouldloosen the crusty stuff easily enough- finish off with the rag. Failure to pressure test your system properly can cause leakages and expensive repairs such as the removal of fixtures and your entire floor/wall. A good way to judge whether the floor heating is leaking is to ask a professional company to conduct a pressure test. You just need the right tools to help you make your repairs easier. JavaScript is disabled. are there any other reasons that I should be looking for why every single expansion fitting leaks? What i meant to say was how might one remove, say, 1 month old dried flux on the soldered joint. Close the valves on the manifold, observe the pressure gauge, and make sure that the pressure gauge has not changed. They are cheaper to acquire and to install. So that warranty sounds like it was written by insurers and/or bean-counting lawyers and not by a technical group. After the repair is completed, the pressure test needs to be carried out again to ensure that no water leaks, and the water flow test is carried out to prevent debris from entering the pipeline and causing a blockage. then I turn my water back on. I used Pex-A and I couldn't move the barb in and out at all. The system is repaired. Helping You to Do It Yourself! My conclusion is that it's not the water, or the climate, but the care takento wipe downthe install. Can it be r Hi all, Stress in the PEX material facilitates oxidative degradation of the PEX causing it to become brittle at the high-stress point. Consider that when you plumb with metal, you don't get any warranty. I've told them about their problem atleast 6 months but they dont seem to care,today I didn't say anything. Straighten the PEX tubing to reduce the tension on the kink. PEX-A pipe with expansion ring not reforming after expansion. A community dedicated to helping people with advice on personal home improvement projects. Tell us, did you depressurize before using the heat gun? Did you buy the proper fittings for the system your using? And IMO, some Civils can make good off-hours plumbers. I've been wanting to upgrade to PEX since I've gotten several leaks in the CPVC fittings over the years. I'm using Mr. Pex (Safelink) for my radiant heat and Vanguard for the potable water. Oh give me a home where the Wirsbo roams. Here are a few possible reasons your installation is not working: And you waited 8 years to make your very helpful comment! Drawing a full-scale picture on a scrap of plywood can help get the ridge looking straight. There was a bad batch of Waterline products, including 1/2" pex 90's and 3/4" x 1/2" pex tee's. seen it more than once, call a plumber that's not like changing your kitchen sink faucet. While relatively new in the US, PEX has been in use successfully in Europe for over 40 years. when it comes right down to it, what difference does it make ? Sharply bending the tubing causes the tubing to kink. Cixi, Ningbo, Zhejiang China 315334, E-Mail:[emailprotected][emailprotected], How To Determine If PEX Expansion Fittings Are Leaking, Since the PEX expansion fittings road system is buried underground, there are certain limitations in inspection and maintenance. Theres a decent chance leaking like this will clear up with time, but pressurizing early will slow this process and you can still end up with bits of water where they shouldnt be. More breaks to come! PEX is often portrayed as a point-point plumbing system when it actually has _mechanical_ crimped connections at almost every fitting. Here are pictures of both. Cross-linked polyethylene, popularly known as PEX, has been widely used for water piping, insulation, and heating systems. ;). Cool! A bit late to this party, but for any future redditors: you need to wait longer than five minutes, especially if its cold. The fact you can shove it further onto the barb makes me think you have the wrong fittings. I have never had a leak, so I am guessing you are not using proper technique. Degradation and embrittlement of PEX piping are accelerated by stress. You also need expansion connections to finish this repair. the first fitting took me about a minute to get it right, and everyone after that went easy like 10 20 seconds. Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox. Now, ask yourself a simple question: If a house is plumbed with the same material throughout, will it be more reliable than a house plumbed with two different materials mechanically joined at dozens of interface points? Pex (cross-linked polyethylene) is the base component of Wirsbo's and other manufacturers PEX water lines. Come join the discussion about the industry, safety, finishing, tools, machinery, projects, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! every single expansion fitting leaked. You bought the Pro Pex Expander tool? Also make sure you use Pex A, it is more flexible than Pex B or Pex C. Last thing is to wait about 30 minutes after installing the ring before repressurizing. I'd never heard this before. These connectors are made without using chemicals or solders. >> The older stuff is not water soluble.Yes, I know it's not water soluble out of the jar, but after it's been heated to soldering temperature (and often beyond, if you're no better with a torch than I am), much of the residue is water soluble, and it's the water soluble part that really needs to be cleaned off. This means that even if you installed them tightly, they might still come apart or leak. For the original poster, here's my take on various piping technologies: Poly-butylene plastic water pipes were on the market for some 25-30 years. A PVC cutter is designed to cut different pipe sizes up to 2 inches in diameter. Once the installer decides on whether to use brass or plastic fittings, he or she then has to decide whether to use standard size fittings or use expansion fittings. Questions of a Do It Yourself nature should be Plastic Expert Group & Failure Labs Copyright 2022 Toll Free USA: (877) 668-4345 International: +1 (989) 281-4465, www.plasticpipefailure.com www.plasticfailure.com, Plastic Failure Services: Molding Defects Pipe Failure Analysis Materials Testing Consultants Plastic Failure PEX Failure Polymer Consulting, PROBLEM:Defective PEX pipes with expansion joints leak causing water damage, expansion fittings places significant additional stress on the wall of the pipe making the pipe, more prone to chemical attack and degradation by chlorinated water. During this process, the kink starts to disappear. ", Are you suggesting that PEX has either not been proven or has been disproven in its use during the past 25-30 years? say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." After the PEX expansion fittings are installed, the pressure test must be done: close the main valve, use a pressure machine to pressure the PEX expansion fittings, and wait for half an hour when the pressure is 8-10 kg. You folks are GREAT. For this, you can follow the same steps listed in the next section. As an engineer, your're probably familiar with trade-offs in material selection for projects and the concept of interfaces in systems. Notice thedamage to the inside surface caused by the teeth of the expansion tool and the cracks thatformed on the inside surface resulting from embrittlement of the PEX material accelerated bythe additional stress of the expansion. P.S. Fittings and tubing are cheap, and you sure don't get a warranty with copper (and it can corrode and leak, so it's not foolproof either). are loath to be on the receiving end of a class-action suit a la ploybutylene piping. The conventional repair method involves replacing the damaged section of the PEX pipe with a new one by crimping. If thejoints were not wiped, the install can fail in four to five decades. I compressed the ring with a worm gear clamp for a month or so (would not have had to wait that long). The use of fittings that are the same diameter as theinside of the PEX pipe and crimp fitting results in a more reliable joint because of the lowerstress. Do PEX connections come loose and fail? they are only going to reimburse you for the new fitting if it fails. The older stuff is not water soluble. Rose, Expert insights on techniques and principles. Plumbing Zone - Professional Plumbers Forum. We may be confusing terminology. Every case is unique and should be treated accordingly. A forum community dedicated to Do it yourself-ers and home improvement enthusiasts. Just looking at these pipes made me nervous. Places where stuff plugs together, or where dissimilar materials contact are where you will usually find the problems. How might one remove flux remnant after cooling? Anyone hereknow if Poly-B installs with metal fittingsare also failing? Follow the installation tips in your manufacturers manual regarding freeze prevention and freeze protection. Sometimes depending on the temperature, it can take a little while to seal. "Actually you do get a 50 yr warranty with copper.http://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/restools/wrnty/war_doc_txt.htmBut there is not much left after you get past the exclusions. How to Finish Drywall Around a Shower Enclosure, Reusable Flood Bags for Fast Bulk-Water Control, Keep Craft Alive Podcast: Ep.18, Kate Hersey and the Minnesota Tool Library, Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, http://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/restools/wrnty/war_doc_txt.htm, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Pretty Good House Book Excerpt: Copper Farmhouse, 10 Dos and Don'ts for Electric In-Floor Heat, Framing Stairs to an Out-of-Level Landing, Good-Looking and Long-Lasting Traditional Gutters, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: William B. It actually does not take too many weeks for the chemical reaction of acidflux paste on copper pipe work to show visible signs of activity. Our plumbers have not returned our calls to move some lines in our house so that we can finish our basement. . The connectors are created without the use of solders or chemicals, so even if you put them in tightly, you might see them leak or come apart. This stuff is a corrosive agent that over time leads to pinholing (from personal observation). The following case study is the property of Plastic Expert Group and cannot be copied or distributed without prior permission. In another case, I reporteda similarcondition to a prospective home buyer, who withdrew his conditionaloffer to purchase. We welcome your comments and Is he the only plumber in town, Videos make things much easier than it looks at least you had leaks now and not a ripped joint a month later, when your out of town maybe? Hello, I was hoping to get the input of some experienced installers on a PEX-A fitting leak. The electric powered tool does this automatically Not sure if that is the cause though. If you have those, what do you do? Because of the potential for corrosion (dezincification) of brass fittings, plastic fittings are generally preferred. HOWEVER, when I was half finishedI noticed on the instructions for the Wirsbo expansion tool a statement that says thatif aqualified trained technician makes the connections, they are guaranteed for ten years. Maybe he just bought his pex from people who store it like this..This pic was taken today at a supply house. Thanks for taking the time to respond Reach4, Terry, and breplum. . Supposedly it will never leak . If you can move the PEX around, it has not sat long enough. Try it and post your results. PEX/copper push fitting good enough for garage hose bib line? Yes, a copper pipe cutter allows easy cutting of the PEX pipe. There are special tools that you might need for repairing the connectors, but you should rent them instead of purchasing since you will only be using them for this purpose. A forum community dedicated to professional plumbers. Is it still leaking after such a long time? Other old homes on the same street are fine, withlittle more than dry tarnish to show for their age. A ten-year life for a behind-the-wall plumbing connection just isnt long enough, and a one year life is just ridiculous. You can find sometips for using push-to-connect fittingshere. Yes, I have a house full of the stuff and HATE it. . All rights reserved. Make all your fixture connections homeruns to a manifold, run it places that would be impossible or difficult with copper, snake it through existing walls, etc etc. In past years I had always used copper tubing for my home plumbing projects. Is there something I am missing? there are a lot of plumbers out there betting on that. AH i did, sorry sir claim denied failed to use qualified professionals to make alterations to your home. If a non-qualified technician makes the connections, they are only guaranteed for one year. You fix one bad joint and a few days / weeks / months later, the next one down the line goes. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Any paste flux residue that didn't get hot enough to turn black is still corrosive, but not nearly as corrosive as the water soluble stuff. You need to do either the PEX clamping or crimping method to secure your connections. The heated tube will become transparent within 2 to 4 minutes. You can also apply cool water if you want the pipe to cool faster. Do this to the tube on the other side of the adapter. Leaking pipes in your plumbing system can be a big stress. Has anyone found a failed PEX connection? OK, thats the manually version. As shown in the figure below, expansion fittings are larger in diameter than the inside of the pipe. Im not a licensed electrician either, but I did go to school for it. Then stretched a new ring to fit over the expanded PEX, and re-did. Dear Wonderful Friends of Breaktime: I never thought my question on PEX would stirr up so much interest, or generate so much information. Among the most common issues of leaking pipe connections are improper installation practices, especially for push-to-connect fittings. After the test, the floor was laid back. You could install and acid neutralizer as well. The last time that got some I "reached" for the the water soluble, but ended up with older stuff. What they're saying is that if the installation is done by a technician trained and certified there is SOME guarantee that it will be installed in accordance with methods approved by the manufacturer. Rm 1401-1410, Block A1, Guangzhou Greenland Central Plaza, Shenzhou Rd, Huangpu District, Guangzhou, China 510530. When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions. You can experiment with this if you get the chance. Any crimps that have been leaking for more than a day or so must be cut out. PEX is the abbreviation for cross-linked polyethylene. I know you do not walk everywhere you go. I having a problem with pex leaking on the cold water line on a 1-1/2 year old repipe. As time goes by, the surface temperature gradually rises, and the location of the leaking pipeline will rise to a very high temperature, and a peak will be formed at the leaking point, where the temperature of the leaking point will be much higher than the temperature of other parts of the pipeline. Thatrealtor hates me now. So a wet rag will remove the really damaging flux residue, while a hot, soapy rag and a little elbow grease will remove all of it. Chalk another up forTaunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. The one that is $400 by Milwaukee?? I have about 12 fittings leaking on the cold water side, As we know when you have an acid problem it will show up on the hot water side first. oh and when the insurance company asked who did the work. Slight damages to the tubings barrier layers will not decrease the tubes integrity. Below are the steps you should follow when heating a PEX tube: Though heating the PEX pipe slightly damages its barrier layers, the PEX tubings core will still be fine. Once the fitting is inserted into the expanded tubing, the tubing shrinks onto the fitting. Provided the installer wiped the flux after sweating his joints, and the water is not too corrosive, and there's no galvanic action with iron pipes, old copper installs are holding up fine. Not necessarily but will clue you in to some better solutions to maintain the product. What then is the permanent solution???? Hot, soapy water.If I understand correctly, the fraction of the flux that really needs to be removed is water soluble and comes off fairly easy. The three types of PEX are PEXa, PEXb, and PEXc. There were over a dozen mechanical crimped joints in the shower area alone! The use of expansion fittings places significant additional stress on the wall of the pipe making the pipemore prone to chemical attack and degradation by chlorinated water. Copyright The problem is that it is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture out of the air to continue its attack on the copper. PEX was first used in the '30s. Use the PEX 3-part fittings to do this. Add:358 Weiyi W. Road, Chongshou Industrial Zone, It is also flexible, so you can bend it if you have to. I'm a civil PE as well. Since the PEX expansion fittings road system is burie []. David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska, This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. :). If using smooth pliers to repair the kink is not effective, you can make the kink disappear by using a thermostat-controlled hot air gun. I'm wondering if maybe I didn't wait long enough to turn the water pressure on or, because of the cool weather it takes a while for the fittings to set back into place and be leak proof? When the torch overheats the tubing, your PEX pipes life expectancy might be compromised. There are potential problems with the use of expansion fittings including 1) the teeth on the tool damages the inside of the tubing by placing indents into the inside surface, and 2) the stress/strain on the expanded tubing are high as revealed in the finite element stress analysis below. I don't believe they're saying this material will fail in one year or ten. Bought the tool, all fittings and line, watched an online video to see how the tool worked. Any help would be extremely appreciated. This occurs when the waters chemistry causes selective zinc leaching from brass alloys which weakens the fitting and results in leakages. Allowances made to customers for transportation, labor, repairs, or any other work, are at the sole discretion of Wirsbo Company, and must be authorized in writing, in advance by Wirsbo Company. :thumbup: I'm just wondering though as I have never used pex, lets just say the hair dryer stops the leak??????????? There are no supply stores in the area so I feel as though I am at a loss here. Poly-B on copper fittings with metal compression rings holding them in place. The heat gun must have done it then. In order to be able to insert the larger diameter expansion fitting into the end of the PEX pipe, the end of the pipe is expanded using an expansion tool like shown in the figure below. I liked how PEX B has blue and red pipes, and it looks like the SharkBite brand has blue and red colored pipes in PEX a. I used a bit of three quarter inch PEX B to mark my clear PEX a pipe near fittings so i remember in the future which is hot and cold. Unfortunately, there is only one plumber in our area that works with this. Ensure you cut your pex straight, cutting it at an angle will cause a leak, Rotate tool when expanding, wait 15-20 minutes before re-pressurizing. One benefit of using cross-linked polyethylene is that it is resistant to freezing. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Sometimes cold temps, cold water may seep on those fittings and the hot air can seal em up. as far as labor to access or repair it ? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. :). I'll stick with proven technology. I don't think that the tool was turned each time. Try getting a hair dryer and blow warm air across those fittings and see if the problem stops? Recently my friends have raved about PEX tubing and its many advantages. probably user error when I installed them 12 years ago. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I wish I had read all your comments before I started my plumbing project. My experience in systems engineering tells me that 95% of all problems occur at interface points, be they electrical, hydraulic, pneumatic, or mechanical. How to fix pex connection leak - help please. To ensure the good operation of PEX expansion fittings in the later stage, good products and standardized installation are indispensable. "I hate to sound like a dinosaur, but this stuff sounds too good to be true. I use a wet rag, kept in a pail nearby. Choose a floor heating company with professional PEX expansion fittings installation and suppression experience to ensure that the installed PEX expansion fittings do not leak. so i developed a leak at an elbow in my cpvc supply lines to the kitchen faucet when i was replacing some cabinets. If you are new here, please review posting/commenting guidelines below. I have a home with a flat roof top. Whether you are using a clamp or crimp connection system, the most affordable PEX repair method is by using brass fittings withstainless steelorcopper crimp rings. it seemed like I could twist the fitting back and forth and shove it further onto the Barb and it would stop leaking but I'm worried that it will just start up again later. While PEX is a strong material, there are instances when you encounter problems with it and the common problem is the breaking of PEX connectors. Everywhere I've read, it should be rotated each time you expand. Copper pipes and fittings have been around longer than most of us have been alive. Heat the PEX pipe carefully while turning the air gun continuously to make sure that all of the kinks sides receive equal amounts of heat. to this site, and use it for non-commercial use subject to our terms of use. I'm attaching pictures of my PEX stub out and of the tool I used. I hate to sound like a dinosaur, but this stuff sounds too good to be true. However, you need to make sure that the temperature of the air that reaches the pipes surface will not go over 330F. Did you make sure you turned the tool each time you cranked it? I have not and will never buy pex from these people. Under normal circumstances, if the PEX expansion fittings leak, the pressure gauge will lose pressure in a short period. submitted to our "DoItYourself.com Community Forums". Repairing a PEX connector is something that you can do on your own. For what its worth, agreeing with another poster, the expansion tool from Milwaukee is worth every penny. Great stuff. If done by someone not certified, they have no way of knowing if the install was done correctly, thus the difference in warranty time. So why would acid only eat up certain fittings, why would condensation only effect certain fittings. One of the most common installation defects is sharply bending the pipe to make a directional change. It isnt affected by freezing; lasts forever; is flexible,etc., etc. "Consider that when you plumb with metal, you don't get any warranty. They can last for up to 200 years given that they are not exposed under direct sunlight. While in my crawlspace, I found a leaking 3/4 pex connection. Is it a pinhole leak in the actual brass fitting or is it leaking between the pex pipe and the brass fitting? Feel free tocontact usif you need any help. - M.K. Thanks. After the leak point of PEX expansion fittings is determined, it must be determined. Provided the installer wiped the flux after sweating his joints. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. Sue Home Depot for stocking crap? The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. JavaScript is disabled. The most common fittings are brass and plastic. 1995-2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. The image below shows, an image of the inside surface of the pipe installed using an expansion fitting. I think this problem is deeper then the usual. The kink in the tubing places localized stress at a spot in the wall of the tubing. Let the pipe cool down until it turns opaque again. When was the last time you calibrated your crimper? Thanbk you one and all. suggestions. The image below showsan image of the inside surface of the pipe installed using an expansion fitting. If it's a crimp system and it's leaking at the joint, then the crimpers will need to be adjusted. This is done using the expander tool and the PEX tubing. You can read more onPEX crimp vs PEX clamphere. It's just too good to ignore. When we were done, we turned on the water and at almost every connection there is a slow drip. I had a small leak. If your PEX pipe has a hole, all you need to do is remove the damaged section of the pipe and then use the crimp connection method to fix it: As we have mentioned earlier, PEX connectors can break if you havent installed them correctly. A leak exists somewhere in your system if you get a lower initial temperature gauge reading. I think Pierre is on to the key. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. NOTE DoNOTheat your PEX pipe using a torch.

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