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Mini-splits with propane and ammonia.that'll solve all our issues! x 1/4 x 50 ft. Mini-Split Line Set, Something went wrong with our inventory service. Its a big pain. Little premium price but nothing crazy for an unique product. Required fields are marked *. Makes at least 3 for us. Brian Chadwick has seen corrosion on the bodies of quite a few PDM-brand pre-insulated line sets, but the fittings sometimes have issues as well. Streamline Copper Tube is UL Recognized to 700 PSI (select sizes) and can be used with synthetic refrigerants and sub-critical CO2 systems. According to an article in ACCAs Consumer Education series, VOCs contribute to formicary corrosion in copper evaporator coils in tight, poorly ventilated homes. If we look a bit at the chemical properties of PE and copper, we might be able to figure out why sealing the line sets at both ends is so important and what it has to do with corrosion. I've used those lines etc a number of times. I would just go back to using armaflex it's more work but if it's going to Crate pinhole leaks in the line set that's a no-go. The copper pipe is coated and now isolated from the external environment so no contact with oxygen or moisture or VOCs = no corrosion! Copper Tube Do not run high voltage wiring in parallel with low-voltage or control wiring. One flavor has a texture, like knurling; but I think l I've seen a smooth covering too. White insulation with yellow writing? Think of how much of this product has been installed since its arrival in the market. Neil likes to slit the insulation jacket and run an electronic leak detector over the opening. are you talking about mini splits with pre packaged and insulated line sets, or something similar? A greenish color indicates the most severe instances of copper corrosion (think about old pennies). I thought I was going crazy as put gauges to troubleshoot a 14 month old 3 zone that was flat. However, Mueller isnt perfect; you will still likely come across line set corrosion with their PE-insulated (white) line sets. Not earth shattering. It seems that since mini-splits really became a "thing" and the pre insulated linsets followed it's been a race to the bottom for some. One thing is certain, though. Water is neutral and has a pH of 7. Contact us between 8AM and 6PM EST, Monday - Friday, JMF EZ-Pull 3/8 x 3/4 in. Streamline Line Sets have been an industry leader for decades. The best thing you can do is seal both ends of the insulation with caulk or sealant to prevent moisture from coming in. However, one undebatable fact is that various line set manufacturers have starkly different rates of corrosion. So, you have a clear idea of what an acidic substance is. Discover more than 100,000 products online at Ferguson today! I havent noticed this correlation, but its interesting. Once I got to the entrance to the 3 inch sleeve for this zone I heard the faint hiss and began to soap what looks to be multiple pin holes in the 3/8. One day the evaporator coil froze up and I suspected it had a leak and it was low or out of refrigerant. We've just seen the white insulation and no problems so far, but this is a good heads up if it does. (They corrode within months, if not straight out of the box.). I got reimbursed for the first few, but not my last one. But is it really that simple? We have had one 1/4" roll be bad. Logical Fallacies False Cause & Strawman, Tips for Learning in HVAC/R w/ Trevor Matthews, Giving Kids The Tools For Any Job They Want, Refrigerant Changes Coming & The Helix w/ Emerson. I have been using a coated copper pipe (ISOTECH) that seems to work well as the metal is now isolated from the external environment. The telltale sign of corrosion is a leak. However, moisture alone doesnt cause corrosion to the degrees that technicians have been seeing. It turns out that the answer isn't [], This is a video tech tip from our friend Brad at HVAC in SC. You take your superheat and temperature readings. However, that doesnt mean that there will be a leak in every green spot (or that leaks wont occur in the dark brown regions). Maybe there are even some green spots. Something went wrong. Condensate systems also consist of pans and switches. Ive recently came across a new coated line sets with tough jacket (ISOTECH line sets) and they seem to work well. Thats not typical practice, so why would the manufacturer give those instructions? The sealant should be waterproof, UV-resistant, and have a strong adhesive. These lines were manufactured in 2014, 15, and 16. With superior services, our premiere loyalty program and cutting-edge technology solutions, we provide you with what you need in order to set your business apart from others. This book provides a comprehensive account of conversation in English and its implications for the ELT classroom. that some line set manufacturers white PE insulation reacts with moisture to create an acidic environment around the copper line set. Now another 160 plus ft to pull out. The tubing kinks very easily. of leaky areas if you open the insulation and see green spots. Get Started to create a new Ferguson account. R410A Engineered and Tested, 10-year limited warranty on the copper tube, Our Company According to the customer, the system is less than five years old. x 30 ft. Mini-Split Line Set, 1/4 x 3/8 in. Again, I should mention that this next practice is only based on personal experience and doesnt have a scientific basis. 2022 Armacell has put out a technical bulletin concerning this issue. Although oxygen can pass through pure polyethylene quite easily, moisture cannot. I think I posted a video here or somewhere a while back, took the line back to our shop and I pressurized it, bubbled it. thanks for the nice article we have seen this on a big job with a couple of 100 units its real disaster,, as we can see again and again quailty not cost it pays the bigest challenge is to get the customer agreeing to it. Despite being protected by fancy polyethylene (PE) sheaths, copper line sets often corrode and leak beneath the squishy barrier. Cleanouts are also capped when in use, but vents are not. (K-Flex is the labeled insulation manufacturer, and the insulation is branded as K-Flex Titan.). Many Isoclima line sets have corroded very shortly after being installed. The image below shows an O-ring failure on a pre-insulated line set. With a broad offering of liquid line and suction line diameters, insulation, thickness, custom ends and connections plus a wide array of custom options, were able to meet our customers most specialized and exacting needs. They claim to glue any tear and tape the ends to prevent moisture. We started insulating our own copper, and now I guess there is some new black pre-insulated copper that we are using. its bullshit and alot of clients are having to pay for their fuck ups. The purpose of this section is NOT to disparage or endorse any manufacturers. Something to Watch For When Replacing a Thermostat, Single vs. multiple drains with other appliances, Drain pitch and if there could be too much fall. Save time shopping for the products you need for your next job. Do Not Sell My Personal Information| Many VOCs in common household products, like formic or acetic acid in cleaners or solvents, interact with moisture and oxygen to corrode copper evaporator coils. It's worth noting, however, that PDM does not just manufacture and sell pre-insulated line sets. Secondary drain pans should be large enough to overlap with the primary pan, especially in horizontal air handlers. i cant imagine how air and moisture will penetrate insualtion. migrate and cause pinhole leaks THROUGH the copper. The even stranger part of the situation is that several ductless systems are only a few months to a few years old when they start leaking due to corrosion. I posted on HVAC-Talk and only 1 so far with leaks. Real training for HVAC ( Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning and Refrigeration) Technicians. No more copper to worry about lolor..the explosion issue with LP lol We first noticed this issue about 2 months ago on a project with 300+ VRF Systems originally installed beginning of 2018. Contact the manufacturer and get refunded. I know I installed a few in new construction where you have to RIP drywall out to replace fingers crossed. Everyone by me has been dealing with this, we stopped i wanna say a year ago which was still 3 years too late. This work inspires us to believe in the indestructibility of the human spirit. There seems to be a problem completing the request at present. As you can see, there isnt a straight answer as to what is really going on with those PE-insulated line sets. Please note it is white pipe with white insulation as opposed to white pipe containing dark insulation. A new ZoomLock fitting ended up solving that issue. or other leak detection fluid. With that said, I will not at this time name the manufacturer. That way, moisturecan't interact with the insulation and form acid inside. Why would we need to seal both ends of a line set? Anything with a lower pH, like lemon juice or vinegar, is acidic. Copper cannot corrode without oxygen and moisture. sounds like bullshit to cover up for using cheap chinese copper. This is the only article I have been able to find on this issue. not penetrate in precise, consistent locations. Your email address will not be published. Make sure to use proper caps that have seals or brass flare cones. The insulation ratings also need to be appropriate. White Ambiance bulbs VS Full Colour bulbs. Considering that some manufacturers use other companies parts and that Isoclima is not an American company, the quality of their copper and insulation is difficult to judge. and we are having some bad issues with them, too. Is there a new vacuum pump to evacuate the insulation. i would buy the tubing and insulation separately if necessary to get the correct tubing, it will be cheaper than having to fix a couple in the long run. Please DONT treat this article as a definitive source of information. x 35 ft. Standard Line Set, JMF EZ-Pull 3/8 x 3/4 in. Submittals Considering that some manufacturers use other companies parts and that Isoclima is not an American company, the quality of their copper and insulation is difficult to judge. If possible, you may want to consider replacing corroded line sets with new ones and using black elastomeric insulation instead of the white PE-type. I have been reported of few new black rubber elastomeric line sets failures by the local contractors community and so I gave credit to the ISOTECH product. x 30 ft. Mini-Split Line Set, 1/4 x 1/2 in. Thank you for providing this platform and all your great YTvideos. They sent me a current copy of the line set manufacturers installation instructions where in it was "recommended" to seal the ends of the insulation to the copper. Thanks, guys! Ive spoken with a few people and they stated the manufacturer said its because of the chemical they use to make the insulation UV resistant, it reacts with water and air and creates pin holes on the pipe. A true pain but could possibly solve the problem. I'm unsure what you mean by white pipe though. Any moisture between the pipe and insulation will cause pinholes. In those cases, the symptoms are like those of leaky flares. Im glad to have found this article and I think your on to something. Knowing that those pinholes are likely to be the external manifestation of interior copper line corrosion, can replacement of deteriorated insulation and taping & end-sealing alone abate further copper corrosion or should linesets be replaced entirely? Third and shortest run started dropping as soon as I started applying N. As I peeled off the white insulation from the condenser working the 5 ft towards the under slab sleeves for this zone I found nothing but brown black and some spots where it turned green. The residential HVAC technicians in our audience may be familiar with the following scenario: Youre on a service call for a ductless system that isnt working properly. Branch box system, thats really gonna stink. Terms of Site Use| Has anyone tried using the 3/8 plastic coated copper line used for fuel oil lines. Im happy to send you some picture if youd like. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Elastomeric insulation has a UV retardant added but it is recommended to cover or apply a coating for long term exposure. View basket for details. One thing is certain, though. of the insulation with caulk or sealant to prevent moisture from coming in. Found the same on my 3 zone system. Gary, I guess I am not the only one with leaks.

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